Oh God! I remember that too! When Gabrielle switched Brenda's kid with Alicia Grande's after Alicia and Gabrielle were in the car accident and Alicia died....

david46208, right on! I was always told that "...nothing is new under the sun". There are really only a handful or more of dramatic themes but what makes each different is the execution of the underlying stories as well as the characters involved. When people draw the line between those 'old' soaps and the 'new', I think they're missing the point. Yes, a story can and must adapt to the times, but there are still basic fundamentals that don't change.
It is akin to writing a great song.

No matter whether it is Cole Porter, Bach or Adele or Estelle, a criteria of what constitutes an entertaining song has remained the same since time immemorial. I don't know about anyone else but when I hear Patti LaBelle sing Lady Marmalade, it is still a song that makes me want to dance as I'm sure it made people of my Mother's generation want to dance. Bob Marley's declaration that a 'Hungry Man is an Angry Man' still rings true decades after his death.

When one watches a comedy like Modern Family, it is also using the same basic comedic principles as the Dick Van Dyke show (really, it is) and I Love Lucy. The characters themselves just reflect today's society.

Unlike the soaps that seem to draw from the same intimate circle of writers who boomerang between soaps (some now cancelled) and the few that remain, Primetime draws from a wider pool of writers. That's one of the mistakes of Daytime as opposed to Primetime Soaps, Primetime has replenished itself in terms of creativity while Daytime has the same pool of headwriters (except for MAB who is basically in the Bell family but who is now stale and surrounded by equally stale writers) who have gone from soap to soap. There is nothing wrong with longevity but some of these writers were fired multiple times and are still allowed to write bland storylines. In Primetime, you'd simply be cancelled...and possibly cancelled again until you come up with a hit show.

I remember when Marco Dane and Karen Wolek switched Jenny's dead baby with Catrina's Carr's!

They cannot have killed Tea and Victor's baby! There has to be a twist. Somehow this is going to bring Victor home to Tea so that they can make more babies and/or unite Victor and Tea with their baby who is really alive. As it stands now, if this is all that there is to Tea's and Victor's baby, then I truly believe that GH will have lost all of the OLTL fans who watched GH to see the characters that we love.
I love Starr and I love Todd but I love them as part of OLTL not GH. I tried watching GH when Kristen began on Gh and again with Roger and Kassie but I just can't get into it. I wish that I could! I watched GH from the beginning, when I was in second grade, through Alan Quartermaine's ghost. I want so desperately to like GH but no matter how hard I try, I can't stomach it. I did watch some of Tea's delivery but not much. I love all of the actors and characters involved but so far, they just don't fit it.
I miss GH when it was good and I miss OLTL terribly.

@MsAgentProvocateur1: Well this leads me back to the problem with the OLTL mayoral race. When you have such rich history between Viki and Dorian, Ron chose to play it as Gay Marriage was the center of the mayoral race in Llanview. In Llanview? As if that was going to determine the election.

Yet, with the real economy in turmoil, people without jobs and little faith in government there was little attention given to that. Gay Marriage could have been one of the issues (when it came to views on morality), but since it would take the state legislator to make that happen, there was no reason to make it a central issue.

Vicki should have been portrayed as a pro-business conservative given her ties to Buchanan Enterprises. So she would have laid out a right-leaning economic plan for Llanview.

Dorian should have taken the more liberal path toward growth and expansion in the city.

And instead of the fake "gay marriage" Dorian engaged in to secure votes. Viki who would have been polling better than Dorian, would cause her engage in dirty politics and create campaign ad's that posed this question:

IF YOU ELECT VICTORIA BUCHANAN...WHICH PERSONALITY WILL SHOW UP TO WORK?

Now that would have played on the fact that Viki has a mental illness and could have created fear in citizens of Llandview. Thus, igniting a return to the feud between these two.

Also Dorian when it came to crime and justice. Dorian could have appealed to voters by informing them how she knew how it felt to be falsely accused of a crime when Viki had her almost put to death over the murder of Victor Lord, which turned out to be Viki herself as one of her personalities.

The type of character assassination Dorian would resort to when the chips were down during the election would have been devilishly good and played on history.

So that when Dorian won the election, it as due to her dirty politics and Viki resenting that make them enemies again and also cause Dorian to lose some relationships as friends and loved ones did not approve of her tactics.

Now from where I sit that would have been a character driven storyline.

Then again when you (Ron C) are likened to JER style of writing you are not going to get that type of story that a writer and viewer could learn at the hands of Bill Bell or Agnes Nixon and yes Douglas Marland.

So again I would suggest that Ron needs a co-headwriter to reel him in a bit like he had on OLTL. I'd ask for Michele Val Jean, but hey she got the hell out of dodge and i'm sure B&B is paying well.

David, what you describe above just blew my mind. We have got to get you writing for Days.

And, hopefully, that would be a springboard to your own show.

nellie-claire-don't feel like you are alone.I haven't watched GH since Sam was raped last fall.That was the last straw for me with GH.I love OLTL and at first thought this might get me back to GH if they were going to bring some characters over.But as much as I tried and have recently tried,I cannot watch GH.Sorry for all the fans who want me to watch for ratings,but I'm FF thru so many soaps now,can't do another one.

Look at some of the story ideas posted on this site,like the ones from david46208(great ideas by the way)and others,and you can see all it takes is alittle imagination.Is it the writer's problems,or are TPTB not letting them be original?I don't know,but if it doesn't improve soon,all I'll have left are old clips on youtube of the shows I onced loved.

@SoapArmageddon: Thanks! I try. I tend to look at the history of the show and draw from that without just simply repeating all their greatest hits. And as Douglas said:

"Learn the history of the show. You would be surprised at the ideas that you can get from the back story of your characters."

As for Days I have ideas for that show...I been reading up on its history more and more to see what things could be integrated into where it is currently. Because they are main offenders when it comes "repeating their greatest hits" REMIXED.

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Now I still believe that their is life left in General Hospital (Y&R even). But you need someone who can write long term story, have a vision and direction for the show that is inline with and combines history, with contemporary story telling.

Writers need to stop using the same old story threads and start reading for each soap:

-B&B: Vogue, Elle, Marie Claire, Harper's Bazaar, Lucky, Teen Vogue, W, L.A. Confidential, New York Post, L.A. Times, Cosmopolitan and WWD (Woman's Wear Daily).

-Days: Reader's Digest, Ebony, Newsweek, Seventeen, Family, Chicago Times and Psychology Today.

-GH: Ebony, Doctor magazine, Medcape, New York Times, San Francisco Chronicle, Time Magazine, Bloomberg and Business Insider.

-Y&R: Ebony, Jet, Essence, Uptown, Upscale, Black Enterprise, Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Barrons, Business Insider, Bloomberg News and Vanity Fair.

From there they could pull relevant and contemporary stories to add to the mix. That' s what Agnes said she did. Also she would see where the world was at at any given time.

She got the "imitation of life" storyline and hired Ellen Holly straight out of a NTY's piece. She wrote "Erica's Abortion" story based off of the controversial Roe vs. Wade debates in the 70's. Jessie being accused of raping Liza was based off of the 80's social issue of black men being accused of raping white women and convicted with a lack of substantial evidence. She even came back to help write Bianca's "coming out story."

The OLTL writers of the day with Agnes's input created the Karen Wolek as a hooker story based off the late 70's early 80's real life suburban housewives turned hooker phenomena.

To the credit of Y&R, Jack Smith and co. took what was happening with the Enron, American Airlines and Martha Stewart scandals and created the Victor payola scam story, when Victor knew that he could not beat Jack an Jabot in a head to head competition in the cosmetics industry.

All of these examples were right on time. And were the sign of the times.

soapbaby, liason4real got it, I was referring to the early 80s baby switch of Jenny and Katrina's babies by Karen and Marco

I know David is not going to get me started on my girl Lexie. She should still have Isaac. Hope is a nut job.
Victor needs to show up now! Like yesterday. And I'm sick of the Llanview invasion.

when is the Pine Valley invasion happening??

are Llanview residents the only ones we're supposed to get updates on?

@David what you wrote about OLTL was amazeballs and made so much sense! I actually stopped watching OLTL during the election story. It just didn't hold my interest enough as life got really hectic for me. But I think I would have continued watching with dirty campaigning like that.

Also, I absolutely love the idea that writers need to do RESEARCH to do their jobs properly! I'm a teacher, and we can't sit back and act like we know everything and teach the same tired material again and again. I don't think anyone can do that because knowledge is continuously shifting and changing. I think you have it totally right that these writers are seriously stuck.

@The_Moustache, there are AMC ramblings in the GH forum...

@david, I never actually watched OLTL until a year and some change before it went off the air but what you described sounds very entertaining. Like an actual campaign with all the drama and even heightened from there. Just imagine what the soups could've been had there been a fresh crop of writers like you who had had the opportunity to apprentice with an Agnes Nixon and fill the writers room for the future!

I had some ideas on ATWT, but I think I gave up about 10 or so years ago, when the show appeared to be at the point of no return to me. It's strange but by 2001/02, I knew that it wasn't long for the television landscape.

Boy has this thread grown! I went away to watch Venus' transit (the planet, not the tennis player, although I love her too) and look what happens!

@Tris Drake: Hope never got to believe that she could "beat Lexie" in a fight. Hope is so weak that even with a guy in her hand she get's kidnapped. My favorite scene was when they had that Latino's woman who kidnapped Hope in the ally. She was holding the gun to Hope and told her:

"On the ground, now! Good Girlllll."

But yes Issac should have still been with Lexie. I wanted her wreck havoc the Brady's, but that never happened.

This storyline is such a waste of time. I really don't care that Tea lost her baby. If there are trying to copy AMC -OLTL baby switch storyline they failed. That storyline was great it brought the two shows together and gave everyone a chance to shine. It not only affected one family but four

It's funny, I don't remember so many praising the AMC baby switch at the time. I was one of the only posters at the time who was excited about the crossover potential, and it was a lonely position to take. Suddenly, THAT was a great storyline and THIS one is the worst writing ever committed to paper. Funny how that happens.

I know how you feel.

I,too,enjoyed the AMC-OLTL baby switch.The problem with this switch is there is no Llanview to show the other side of the story.Dani being happy.Erica happy.Unless they are going to end this in a very short time,ie Sam recognizing her child,this is kind of sad.

I read Frank V doesn't like leaks.Maybe this is why.But you know soaps can keep major secrets if they want.I remember still the surprise of Kevin being Michael's brother on Y&R.Plus almost everyone thought Victor was alive on OLTL,the surprise was Allison Perkins had him.

I'm thinking they made it look like Sam's baby is dead to eventually end the whole Sam/Jason relationship. They make stick together for awhile, till Sam finds out what Jason did to John, which . to her, will probably make her think it caused the baby's death. I would like to see Sam get away finally from Jason, so sick of her crying and Jason always thinking he's the one with the problems. I love how John treats Sam and I hope they will get together some day because they have huge chemistry between them. I think Jason and Liz have more chemistry together, then he has with Sam, BUT, I want Liz to be a strong woman on her own, that her world doesn't revolve around Jason, like all his past women have done. Can't help it, love Roger Howarth! Todd IS a BAD boy, but he plays it so well. Can't wait to see Blair kick his ass. Wish Trevor St. John could come on the show for awhile, at least, but I read he doesn't want to do anymore soaps, he wants movies and prime-time roles.

Soaps are becoming extinct and while it's fun to pay homage to the classic days of soap, soaps really need to think about ways to evolve. How can we make these shows more appealing to viewers as a whole? How can we grab the same ratings that Grey's Anatomy or Desperate Housewives or Revenge is pulling because those are essentially soaps. How can we make these soaps more like those successful shows? If they keep rehashing old storylines, it's never gonna change. I'm gonna still keep watching GH, but damn, something's gotta change or else it's gonna be gone.

******

If I may be so bold as to answer your question about what GH needs and what every successful soap, daytime or nighttime has ever had: strong female characters. Every soap has veered wrongly into stupidity but viewers remain loyal when the characters reflect back qualities they wish they had or believes themselves to have. When every woman (barring a few little used characters) is raped, mistreated, beaten down emotionally or physically and STILL finds herself only existing for the very men who treat her that way, it becomes hard for viewers, both men and women, to root for that character.

Revenge has plot holes a mile wide. But it's a show dominated by two strong female leads. I don't think there's any other secret to its success. It's pure homage to nighttime's soaps glory days with two women driving the story. The characters are dirty, immoral but these woman are anything but the passive pathetic maidens Frons' wished for GH.

For me, it's not about having to suffer through implausibly written male romantic leads who kill for a living and fight over women's orifices. It's about watching female characters who gladly orbit around those men. For me, it's like watching a modern day show with African Americans dressed in slave costumes. It's offensive to my feminist sensibilities. It's a spit in the face for all the wonderful soap writers of the past who gave American women their first true glimpse of women in non-subservient roles. It's a spit in the face of a genre that always, for better or worse, told women's stories.

Viewers can forgive a bad plot. We can even forgive soap cliche (well perhaps not as much as GH is currently using) but I'd like for someone to tell me any soap that has been successful creatively or ratings-wise that has not featured strong female characters. Carly accuses Johnny of rape then two weeks later wants him back. Sam, recently raped and re-victimized by her brain damaged husband's emotional abuse, is now victimized AGAIN by the cliche soap baby switch. When is Sam going to kick some ass? When is Carly going to kick a rapist to the curb? Wait, it's GH. It seems that it will never happen. With each writing change, we wish for it to but it seems Frons' blueprint for GH is gospel, that it will go off the air as the pathetic vision of an even more pathetic misogynist.

Ron and Frank are making it real hard for me to show them some love right now. Damn, babies and GH do not mix! Though I have some serious problems with this baby switch story, I am a ride-or-die fan. I am hoping that Heather Webber is somehow in cahoots with Allison Perkins, leading to the return of Victor.

Unless Jake is alive,dont give a Damn.

Dead doctors, nurses, mobsters being rolled around in wheelbarrels, baby switch/ another dead baby storyline after the dead baby & father storyline after, dead Jake storyline, paternity switched, babies kidnapped, then Brenda's baby reveal...& so on & so forth....Whew!

Yes these plots are soap staples but I agree that what makes the storytelling (as with literature with the same themes) different is the "execution AND the outcome"

And yes another Sam promo (Geeze without Jason) it must be very nice to be a Sam fan.

Heather should have walked in on Tea and Sam going into labor in that shack.

Sorry, someone else already made my comment about the OLTL baby switch storyline from years ago, the one with Karen and Marco switching Jenny's baby with Kat's.
(new here, can't find "delete")