Harmony Refers to Phyllis as "Miss Phyllis" on Thursday's The Young and the Restless

I don't think Jamey is being oversensitive or overreacting. My gut reaction to hearing it was that it was strange and racially charged. What some people forget is that when it comes to minority TV characters, or gay TV characters, the minority or gay audience watches very carefully. As a gay soap viewer, I can tell you that I have probably watched all the gay characters that have come and gone since Bianca came out on AMC much more critically than I have the other characters.

Y&R definitely has a problem when it comes to its black cast. Jamey jokingly refers to them only appearing on the "first and the fifteenth" and he is not all that wrong. I have only been watching Y&R since 2005 or 2006, and things have not been the same since Dru went over the cliff. Dru and Neil worked at big companies and were much more integrated into storylines and they weren't the "black characters." They were characters who happened to be black. But since Dru went over, Neil seems to... not work anywhere, actually, and the black characters for the most part seem to be islanded in their own storylines much more than when I first started watching. In general, a good soap shouldn't "island" any of the storylines."

When it comes to Harmony (formerly Yolanda), she is actually interacting with a lot of the cast. She lives with Katherine (whom she does NOT call Miss Katherine) and she works for Phyllis (who she referred to as "Miss Phyllis, Phyllis Newman." Now, if she had said, "Miss Phyllis Newman," it might have sounded a bit different. It did NOT sounds like a mistake or flub that she had to recover.

Later in the episode, Harmony seems to be fawning over Phyllis a bit, and Phyllis tells her she is destined for something beyond the reception desk. Meanwhile, I must have blinked when Harmony actually got hired.

About 30 years ago on soaps, if you watch clips on YouTube, you will note that people who were not well acquainted used Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms and a surname. And this was uniform. In fact, in "The Best of Everything," (1959), sometimes even the bosses would refer to underlings by Miss Surname, and no first names. In that movie, it wasn't until Hope Lang's character was promoted to Editor that she could call her former boss by her first name. It was a different culture back then. Some of that exists in parts of the country still, but in general, we are a casual country where everyone is on a first name basis whether you like it or not. During a bad time at a bank, the manager kept calling me by my first name, and I finally erupted and said, "With lousy customer service like this, you can call me MISTER BOOKEY, thank you very much." Another time, an underling who worked for my landlord called me for the first time and kept using my first name and ordering me around about something that was a longstanding problem the LANDLORD had not fixed for years. When she realized I was not responding, she said, "Are you there, Seth?" And I said, "Yes, but it's MISTER BOOKEY to YOU." I also annoyed her with faxes where I insisted on addressing her as Ms. Whatever.

But, we have not seen Harmony doing this with anyone else but her employer. And nobody else at Restless Style seems to do this (to be fair, we almost never hear the staff there utter a sound). And as has been pointed out, Chloe never felt a need to call anyone Mr. Billy or Mr. Nicolas or Miss Phyllis.

Meanwhile, I was thinking, "Harmony, why are you telling this total stranger at Crimson Lights about the big story RS is breaking?" That alone could get her fired.

I would like to think that Debbi Morgan would complain about this ahead of time. But, she has been in show business a long time, and I am sure she knows which battles to pick. One time, I complained to my boss about the homophobic nature of a conference call we had with other employees who were off site. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that I was downsized nine months later (but then given tons of freelance work). This same woman criticized my glasses as being "fun for the office, but not to be worn at business calls." Well, the real context was, "those glasses are too gay." Meanwhile, we reported on EYEWEAR and it was from a top eyewear company, and the ONE pair of glasses that everyone complimented me on spontaneously, including strangers. I also had to complain when we did a "top 50 women" article and they were counting the lesbian couple who owned a major eyewear company as ONE entry. (We had 50 entries, but 51 honorees.) I really had to explain to my boss that the lesbians were TWO women, not one couple/entity. I am sure my ability to complain about this lead to the end of THAT career.

So, I am sure Debbi might want to ride the soap opera gravy train for as long as she can put up with it. She must know about institutionalized racism better than anyone. Also, Debbi has played a wide variety of roles. I seem to recall she played a neglectful mother on Soul Food, I think. So, she went from sainted doctor to recovering drug addict. So what? I mean, she knew what the role would be. She's an actress. Why would she want to play the same sort of role she just left?

Well, I have rambled on. I think the main takeaway for me hearing that line was that it was extremely odd in 2012 to be hearing this. Also, when you don't have that many high-caliber black actors to start with up front and center on a network program (highest rated show among soap operas), and you're a black viewer, it just feels like a slap in the face to have Harmony using 40-year-old manners and speech.

what happened to Mamie, that woman who was the Abbott's maid or something??

Mamie moved away after her relationship with John Abbott fell through. He picked his marriage to Jill over his budding relationship with his maid.
Mamie is also the aunt of Dru and Olivia Barber. She has popped up from time to time at weddings and funerals and such in the Barber/Winters clan.

duplicated oops

I just read this on one of the message boards and thought it was an interesting take:

"It amazes me how he (Jamey) never has anything good to say about Y&R but offers nothing but praise for that campy shitfest OLTL, a show that treats its black characters like extras. No black character on that show has had a frontburner story since 2007 when Evangeline was front and center, that is before she was put in a coma after being gased by a white sumprecist group. What does JG have to say about that? Not a damn thing because he's too busy being bitter about Y&R. SMH."

I would also like to ask Jamey if he were not offended by a pregnant Destiny going on a national talk show and "outing" her "no-good" baby daddy? I was certainly offended but I heard none of the bloggers complaining about that.

I believe it is only fair to point out the racism that exists in ALL of daytime, not just a Y&R...a show that has the most black characters and at last attempts to give them story. Now I'm not excusing that "Miss Phyllis" line. I thought it was deplorable but Y&R isn't the only soap guilty of such flubs.

Jamey,

You're so off base. I think you may be projecting...

A black woman calling a superior (in an employment sense not a moral sense) Ms. ___ is just a diminutive form of respect. I always thought it was a southern thing so was somewhat surprised to see Harmony say it since she's from Chicago, but it certainly isn't racist.

I'm a white male and have worked in the hotel industry in SC for over twenty years. The population in SC is almost half African American and many of the housekeepers I have worked with over the years have been African American. Almost all of them would refer to older ladies or senior staff members as Ms. ___. Almost all of the older ladies or senior staff members they were referring to were African American and not white. It's not a racial thing at all, it's just good manners from the way they were brought up.

You seem to be criticizing the cinema verite of the script - professing a normative reality that doesn't exist - when really what you're criticizing is the way the world is.

It would be more incongruous for a character who has lived on the streets, in crack houses and half-way houses, to speak like someone who earned a liberal arts degree from the University of Chicago.

My only question about it is that I always thought it was a Southern thing. But I've never lived in Chicago.

Mike

Actually when I heard it, I thought:

1) DM slipped on her line, since she repeated the word "Phyllis" twice or
2) that "Miss Phyllis" was more of a "pet" name - kind of like gays call each "Miss"

OVERBLOWN.

Oh and to the poster who applauded Sean and Vivian on OLTL...ummm, seriously? They receive worse treatment than Neil/Sophia/Malcolm on Y&R! That should tell you all you need to know.

Also, while DC and many here may not like the character of Harmony, she has many fans on the message boards, including yours truly. I think Debbi is doing a great job. Love her!

Sign of respect..sign of respect...the only person on that show that is called Ms anything is Kay Chancellor. I have heard many people on the show call her Ms Chancellor.

I don't watch so this is an honest question. Does Yolanda call Kay, Ms. Kay? Does she call Nick, Mr. Nick? Does she call Billy, Mr. Billy? (I don't know who owns RS nowadays) Or is Phyllis the only one that earns that type of "respect"?

Could it be a flubbed line? Sure....but to the previous poster, I would find it hard to believe that DM has a pet name for MS's character. Who has a pet name for someone's character and not the actor themselves? I couldn't buy that one.

People have a right to be offended, and not have their feelings shunned by others saying that it was overblown, or blown out of proportion. If you are not offended, that is also your right.

Can I point out that there is a distinct difference between Ms. (pronounced Mizzzz) and Miss? Had DM said MS. there would not be a post about it on DC.

I call people I work with Miss Ann, Miss Sue etc. However thinking about it, they are all older than me though

Didn't Aunt Mamie leave GC a million bucks richer cuz of Jill too?

That's interesting DenverDean.
I'm gay and I have never called any of my gay friends Miss.
I'll call them "girl" though.

Wiggum:

I read your comment that you call people Miss Ann, Miss Sue, etc. My question is, do you tell someone who doesn't know Ann or Sue, or people that you do not know that they have to speak to Miss Ann, Ann Smith, or Miss Smith? I'd be willing to bet that it is not the first one in that list.

If the Harmony character would've called Phyllis by her surname, Ms. Summers, I don't think there would be confusion. However by saying Miss Phyllis to someone who is technically her boss but younger than her, smacks of absurdity. Phyllis is not a judge or magistrate or the Queen of England, she is running a tabloid magazine! I have had people call me Miss (insert my name) as a term of endearment, starting with my Mother who uses it as a nickname and others have used it, even my elders but those people know me.

The fact that there is confusion about the context and inflection of the phrase proves what I've known for years about this show--that the writing is lazy and terrible and I'm glad I no longer waste time watching this junk. My kvetch is not even so much about this one throw away line but the poor writing of characters on this show period. The last time I watched, the character had become so diminished and unlikeable that I lost interest. Sad that nothing has changed. In fact, seems like it's worse.

I felt some of the feelings expressed here BEFORE the Miss Phyllis episode. It was the day Yolanda was walking around Genoa City with Katherine Chancellor. Even though I knew the story, my first thought was, did Kay replace Ester? It wasn't just that Yolanda had her hair wrapped in a scarf and that(faux)Mrs C was dressed to the nines & looked quite regal. It was of a combination of things & I can't really pinpoint them, but it gave me the overwhelming feeling that Yolanda was Katherine's "help". I don't have these episodes taped so I can't analyze, but...

Maybe part of it was staging and tone of voice???? Wasn't Yolanda following and/or standing BEHIND Mrs C then doing her bidding when needed? Whatever it was, adding what sounds to me like a strong southern accent just adds to the "Gone w/The Wind" feeling.

I don't understand why Yolanda would have a southern accent, She grew up as Tyras older sister in SEATTLE. Even though we later found out they weren't blood-they were still raised together, and Tyra didn't have a southern accent. Later Yolanda takes off and follows Tucker and his bands. Sounded like they were in LOS ANGELES, CA quite a bit, not the south. And wasn't Tucker in EUROPE for years before that? When Devon first contacted his Mom she was homeless person living in GC WISCONSIN. And as a recovering addict she was a waitress in a Laverne and Shirley's diner in Milwaukee, WISCONSIN. Yolanda may have visited the south but I don't see how she could possibly have a southern accent.

Why I'm at at may as well add another thing that bugs me. It's been brought up about 3 times that Tucker doesn't remember anything about Yolanda. Not having sex w/her, or not even that she was one of the groupies who followed him around- which was supposed to have been for awhile, right? Yet he runs into Genevieve at his wedding and Tucker knows & remembers her- a woman living in Australia her whole life with a mobster husband he didn't know. LOL

I'm a white female who grew up in the Wisconsin...if that matters.

Even if Harmony is from the south, that doesn't mean that line was a form of respect. I am from Alabama. At my job, no one refers to anyone with a Miss or Mr, with the exception of one elderly black lady on the cleaning staff. It is totally accepted and expected, because she is old enough to be everyone's mother or grandmother. That's when it's a form of respect. Phyllis is not old enough to be Harmony's mother, in fact, I believe Harmony is the older of the two, so it is not that form of respect that everyone is declaring.

I watched the scene again with closed captioning and it said "Ms. Phyllis. Phyllis Newman". I really think it was a flubbed line by Ms Morgan.

black woman here!! 60+ years old!

My kids were taught to call anyone of authority (teacher or such) or someone older Miss so and so or Mr so and so.

I was a school teacher in Wisonsin for 20 years, I was Miss Crystal, to white and black kids, was I insulted? no

I have sat in the back of the bus, drank out of black only water fountains, I marched in Washington DC with Dr. King and guess what the line did not even faze me! I was not appalled or ready to do a throw down fit as some who are black and white are doing.

If however, Harmony was walking behind Phyllis saying in my best Vicki Lawrence inpersonation "Miss Phyllis! Miss Phyllis! Miss Phyllis! I don't know nothing about birthin no babeee!" I would be upset, but that is not what happened on my screen. Why not contact DM and ask her opinion?

My kids and grandkids would get their asses beat if I ever heard them disrespecting someone by not using MISS or Mister!

Being the 108 comment no one may read this,but let me add my 2 cents.I am white,62,and from Md.My Mother always taught me to respect elders and authority.Even though I'm older than most of my bosses now,I stil use sir and ma'am when answering questions from them.However,I don't use MIss or MR when talking to or about them.Recently our younger team mates have used Miss Mary when talking to me.At first I laughed but now it means alot to me because they do use as a form of respect.We do have two older black people and everyone uses Miss Luellen and Mr Marion again out of respect.

What bothers me is Phyllis and Harmony are about the same age.It may have been a slip by DM and she tried to recover.I too was taken aback when I first heard it,but I also have not liked how DM has sounded when talking recently.I can't remember if the original Harmony talked like that.Also,I know DM from AMC,and the way she sounded on that show.Maybe that is why I'm uncomfortable with the way she talks.

next thing you know we will have it posted the Michelle Stafford MADE Debbi Morgan say "Miss Phyllis" and then spit on her!

this is just totally asinine to me, sorry just my opinion.

As a black woman I find it offensive however, the whole tone of the show re: the black actors are a bit off for me right now. I'm expecting to see Harmony break out into a shuffle & tap dance at any time. I can't stand the Beulahland antebellum voice it just irks me. I don't know how the hell an ex crackhead should sound but they don't have to sound like they just came in from picking cotton. Hell this ain't the 1800's

It really just sounds like you have an ax to grind here...

I mean, first of all, I doubt Debbi Morgan would go along with anything that she thought was racist.

Secondly, many African American people speak this way, especially down in the south. Everyone down here says "Miz this" and "Miz that". It's not a racist thing. It's just the way people talk (of all colors).

Thirdly, complaining about the name Mamie? Have you never heard of the name Mamie? Like former first lady Mamie Eisenhower? It's a perfectly valid name.

Fourthly, you are wrong about Dru...she had run away from home at a young age (and she was much younger than Olivia), and their mother treated them both very differently as I recall. And being unable to read does not make you stupid, and Dru was not stupid. Lots of people go through school and can't read. I seem to recall she dropped out and ran away, and then was living on the streets when Nathan found her. It was a huge storyline and I believe the only soap to ever really address illiteracy with one of its major characters.

Fifthly, from everything I've read from years of reading the soap magazines, the story about the guy going in white face (not really) was a very interesting and innovative one, with lots of good writing for black characters of that time. He was a cop and went undercover with the mob, so he put on a makeup and other things to look white, and he talked white etc. (they made several movies like that, later, by the way, and they were comedies, starring black people, not to mention Eddie Murphy has worn make-up in his movies to look like many different people, including an old Jewish white man) I think he was even engaged to the mobster's daughter. This was not seen by anyone as racist as far as I have ever heard. In fact, I think Y&R was lauded at the time for having some major stories revolving around black people, when other soaps were not.

Later on, Y&R had major stories with Drucilla, Neil, Olivia, and Nathan, and Devon, for years, and now they have more. They have been really good about giving them great stories. Not all the time, sure, but then they have also not always given all their characters big stories all the time. That's the nature of soap operas with large casts. And some writers are not really good about balancing everyone. (That's been a problem in just about every major soap).

And why don't you complain about the way they write the black characters in Bold & Beautiful...um, wait, you can't because they only have a few, and they are not exactly major characters....same with GH and Days...

Now, I admit I don't like the current writing regime any more than you do, but it has nothing to do with racism. We just had all that story about Neil, Malcolm and Sofia, and Devon learning he's Tucker's son and all that. Now we have Harmony coming in to the story. No one can reasonably say that they are neglecting the black characters even if you don't like the way they are writing them.

I agree they should have more African American actors, writers etc. and also, they should have more Latino, gay, Asian, and other types of people on all the soaps. That is one of MANY reasons why soaps are dying. They look and feel much like they did 30 years ago and little has changed. Not only are the stories predictable (and often retreads), they don't deal with current issues or trends very often. Nothing is cutting edge or outside the box. All the stories are very safe and boring.

Suzanne from The TV MegaSite, Inc.

Really?? It was WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPT, Why are some debating that?

OH MY GOD!!! REALLY???

I’ve been reading this thread since it was originally posted and hesitated to comment because so many people are writing what I am thinking, but I realize I have to add my two cents. I am an African-American male and I have been enjoying Debbi Morgan as Harmony. It is a totally different character than Angie on AMC and some of the things that she has done (the deuces line still has me in hysterics) have been entertaining. I cringed at the sugar bowl incident, but that was a small blotch on her body of work on the show.

Then came the “Miss Phyllis” line. I recall being perplexed and trying to figure out if I heard what I thought I heard. Once I confirmed it, I filed it away (in my brain) for later. I thought that it was a line flub, followed by a quick recovery (“Phyllis Newman”), but it just did not sound right.

Reading Jamey’s post and the comments by like-minded individuals made me realize that I was not alone in my initial thoughts. It has been stated countless times about how this regime has treated its ethnic minority characters as second class citizens. Whether initially intentionally or unintentionally, there has been enough written and commented on that if TPTB were truly concerned at treating characters equal, they would do it. Sadly, I believe this is not a priority. Clearly TPTB believe they are doing nothing wrong, so they are staying the course. Unfortunately, they are still shedding viewers (many of them African-American from what I have read).

I’d also like to comment to those that are not offended or think that there was nothing wrong with the Miss Phyllis line. While, that is absolutely your right, and I support you saying so, there is a fine line between disagreeing with someone and telling them they are overreacting. Race relations is still a hot button issue in our society (look at all the comments on this post), but it is very offensive when someone tells another person that they are overreacting to what they infer to be a racist incident. It is doubly offensive when it is a white person telling a black person. I do not believe that anyone meant to offend, but words like “overreacting,” “asinine,” and “overblown” is dismissive and not helpful. I urge anyone that may have used language like this to reflect and think about this the next time you enter a conversation on race.

OH MY GOD!!! REALLY??? NOT HARDLY. JUST SOMEONE TRYING TO CREATE A BIGGER PROBLEM.

How wrong you are!

But thanks for joining the long list of people who accuse others of being trouble makers and stirring up a mob when they are simply asking for equality. And while in this case we may only be asking for equal treatment among fictional soap characters, it is important in a society that our art reflects our attitudes. In this case, the art on Y&R (if you can call it that) reflects a bias against educated African-Americans. I think this article clearly demonstrated that point so I need not invest any more wordage there.

But if this article is storing up a mob, I say stir away. You accuse this writer of being a wannabe then you state he has the power to "get the mob mentality going". Those statements seem very contradictory. Our history has shown that non-mainstream media outlets have always led the fight when civil rights are being violated. So your attempt at bashing the professionalism of this writer and article, is, at best. lame.

I am proud to be a reader of this site more than ever.

I really do think this whole thread is a tempest in a teapot.

It is possible that some of the concerns expressed are legitimate. However I do doubt that the writers would have the gall to deliberately write such a line and then have their star turn performer actually recite it.

It would be nice to have some feedback from all actually concerned.

It is possible that some of the concerns expressed are legitimate. However I do doubt that the writers would have the gall to deliberately write such a line and then have their star turn performer actually recite it.

It would be nice to have some feedback from all actually concerned.

TEDEW, that would be too much to ask for. Sure been a lot of comments on what did happen. I was wondering if perhaps Yo/Haromony accidently started to call Phyllis her given name of Michelle and when she got to the Mi part she realized it and ad libbed with Miss Phyllis. Just a thought and she saved reshooting a scene.