When did this show become so plot driven? If this is the road the writers are going down, they need to pick up the pace because I'm starting to want Lily to just die already!!!!
I'm still pretty outraged at the idea of completely gutting Lily and removing all of her reproductive organs. This definitely tells me what the current regime thinks of the future of the Winters family. For the life of me, I still cannot understand why every single character who has been SORAS'd on this show has been allowed to reproduce, but us fans of Lily will never have the opportunity to go through an onscreen pregnancy with her. This is so suspect. I see what's happening with the Winters - it's the same thing that happened to the Grants on GL. The Winters are being diminished, their future extinquished and it won't be too much longer before we don't see them at all anymore. After more than 2 and a half decades as a viewer, I'm finally ready to let this show go. Was I supposed to be merely satisfied with the fact that Lily had a story? Was I not supposed to understand the implications of a soap character than cannot reproduce any children?
Jillian, did you like Deacon blackmailing Amber to sleep with him so that Daniel can be off of charges? This is the repeat of the EJ and Sami consent/rape s/l on Days? Do you see a pattern here, LOL. JK, Jillian, I like to know what you feeling about this?
siomonstuart I actually liked Deacon and Amber hitting the sheets. They were always hot on B&B. As for the pattern, sure I see it just like I see patterns of lovve triangles/heartache and blackmail on other shows.
Isn't being blackmailed to sleep with someone rape?
This just seems incredibly sexist to me.
Yes, Deacon is sexy. So what. Being raped by a sexy or ugly man is still rape.
There's a real life case where some high school kid blackmailed his classmates to have sex with him. That kid is now behind bail awaiting trial.
When soaps reward characters like Deacon and E.J. by making them into desirable figures, it just sends the wrong message. Tea and Blair fight over Todd, a man who has psychologically and physically assaulted both of them in the past.
This just celebrates misogyny and continues the line of thinking that women should forgive their abusive partners. Which, sadly, leads to more abuse.
Deacon Sharpe was always a lover and a seducer. He never had to resort to threats to get a woman in his bead. I call character assassination by plot drive sexist writing.
Yeah, I am not with that s/l because Sean Kanan does not need to blackmail any women to sleep with him. It is a bad plot and Hogan should of learn his lesson when he did that s/l on Days. Why not have Deacon come to GC with Little D and have Deacon flirt with Amber and have some problems with the Damber relationship and then have Deacon and Amber hit the sheets. That would of been more organic than the sexist s/l that the writers is going with.
josstheguy how is it sexist? Seriously how? Why watch if you feel that way? Its a classic archetype of soaps point blank. It was a joke and if you'd see how Pure_Diva laughed then you would know. Amber could've shot Deacon down and just finally spill all to free Daniel but she didn't. Deacon NEVER held her down and ripped her clothes off and rape Amber. So what would you call Sami drugging Austin? What about Dru being high on cold medicine and Brooke on pain pills with Ridge?
This is no different than Deacon seducing Bridget and offering to trade her for Amber on Bold and hte Beautiful, then setting up the phone for Eric to hear him deflowering his daughter. Or for that matter, it isn't much different than Amber drugging Cane and making him believe he married her. That's one of the nicer of her sins. She also slept with not one, but two underaged Forrester scions, which is technically statuatory rape and also stole a baby and passed it off as Rick's. It's a soap opera.
Arguments like this is why soaps are dying. Do you watch primetime Josstheguy? I just watched True Blood's protagonist having sex after killing someone with the corpse right next to him in a flashback scene. On Sex and the City, Samantha tried to seduce a Friar. Primetime has taken the serialzed format and exploded it and that's why it's thriving, because they don't have to deal with cries of righteous indigestion about things being sexist or not. Amber has done plenty of things to male victims to satisfy any quota of equality or women having the right to be victimizers on soaps just like men.
But Jamey, you said that when EJ did it to Sami, it was rape. Now it is different. It is not rape, but coercion and why is Deacon so obsess with Amber? This is a bad plot point and it is sexism. The problem with soaps is that most of the women on daytime is portray as victims and the men are the heroes when they shouldn't be. And the writing for daytime is horrible and prime writing has gotten so much better for the past decade.
And, Jamey, you have to agree with me that the writing for Y&R has gotten too plot driven. Why is Amber degressing to fit a plot? She should of told someone about Deacon, but the writing for it happen. So they toke her brain cells and went along with it. Why is Ashley and MJ so crazy for babies and men? Sharon is weak and spineless and Phyllis is once again fallen for Nick's lie? Kay, Jill and Nina just went with Phillip's faked death and no one is angry or pissed off at him for abandoning them? Colleen is now manipulated by Victor and Gloria is taking stuff from Victor to get money? Lily has cancer and can't have a baby? Mac is all about Billy? there's a pattern of weak women on Y&R and the ratings is reflecting the disdain of the writing.
Simonstuart, I have never even tripped about Sami and EJ. They called it rape on the show, but it never bothered me. To me it was blackmail and not that big of a deal on a soap where Sami drugged Austin and made him believe he fathered his brother's child. Lucas allowed his mother to try to kill Sami, twice, that is much worse than EJ blackmailing her into rape. As for Amber, she has, as I said, done plenty of victimization of men. It's a storyline, and I don't find it sexist at all. Was it anti men when she drugged Cane? Was it rape when she slept with an underage Rick? If soaps were always morally and politically correct they wouldn't be much fun to watch.
It's 2009. What worked in the good old days does not work anymore. Women expect to see images of strong & powerful women on screen. Flawed of course, but still strong. Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, Saving Grace, the Closer, Bones, the Mentalist, Southland, etc. all feature strong women characters who can take care of themselves. Women viewers are tired of this sexist crap and that's why ratings are taking a nosedive on every soap. Why would I relate to Amber or find her plight sympathetic? Why would I find a rapist attractive? SK may be handsome but Deacon is icky. There's nothing appealing about this story whatsoever. Amber is not 18. Why she so stupid? I won't even get started on senior citizen Ashley acting dumber than teeny bopper Abby.
I just don't find rape stories that make a rapist, into a sexy bad boy/girl entertaining because I've known several victims of sexual violence: One friend was raped by her grandfather and brother. Another friend was attacked by his junior high school teacher. Someone I know at work was drugged and raped a party. A friend's sister was raped in parking lot going to her car after work. A college buddy was raped at age 13 when he went to summer camp.
Please don't try to guilt trip me for not liking crappy storylines like this it's really disgusting on your part.
Your points:
"People blackmailing people into sex is a soap opera staple."
So, what! I'm not saying that extorted sex doesn't happen in real life or in fiction. Should it be portrayed on TV, sure, just as murder, theft, and other acts of depravity are.
In real life, people get sent to prison for extorting sex: wisn.com/news/555-5555/detail.html
Yes, Sami was a rapist. Women rape men. What's your point?
Before MAB retconned Y&R, Chloe was shown climbing onto a passed out Cane. The implication was that she raped him. I thought she was scum.
Amber has done sleazy things. Does that mean that she deserves to be forced into sex?
What makes you think that I or others wouldn't denounce this kind of crap if it were on primetime or film? I think 24 is torture porn. Sex and the City was terrible. The Saw movies are sick.
As for primetime television, have you looked at NBC's primetime ratings? They suck. This summer, the CW's ratings have been FAR worse than GL's
I enjoy having discussions with you. But you're way off base here and really need to think about what you're saying.
It's not a question of soaps being "politically correct," it is a question of whether or not people who commit such acts are portrayed as villains or sexy bad boy/girls. Is the victim rejected by her/his friend because of rape?
In the real world, rape victims are accused of deserving or enjoying their assault. Bill O'Reilly infamously said that a 15-year-old survivor of rape and kidnapping must have enjoyed his years of assault. In Somalia, a 13-year-old female rape victim was stoned to death for adultery.
We see from the previews that Amber is denounced by Daniel, her lover, when she explains that she was blackmailed into sex.
Please don't try to guilt trip me for not liking crappy storylines like this it's really disgusting on your part.
***
See, Josstheguy, this is exactly why I barely respond to you. Who was trying to guilt trip you into doing anything? We were all giving our OPINIONS about a storyline. If our opinions don't jibe with yours, it is what it is. No one is trying to guilt you into anything, and if you find what I say disgusting then by all means don't read it. Don't tell me to "think about what I am saying" when I disagree with you. It's my right to have my own opinions about soaps or anything else. I have friends who were raped and/or molested in real life as well. This isn't real life. This is a soap opera where people lie, cheat, steal and kill and are redeemed all the time. One of this show's lead characters, Phyllis, killed her best friend and ran Paul Williams over. Victor Newman once held a man in a basement and fed him rats. I don't consider what Deacon is doing rape. I consider it blackmail. You disagree, again, it is what it is, but don't try to act all morally superior because we disagree about a storyline on a soap opera.
I think that Y&R is so dark that I feel that no one on the show is good anymore. I love bad boys and girls, but if everyone on the show is doing something bad, then I feel that viewers will tune out because there is no one on the show to root for. It is too many on Y&R cartoon villains and not a complex bad guy or girl and that's why I have a problem with this s/l. And it seems that it does not make any sense for Deacon to blackmail amber for her Hello Kitty. He could of came into town and break up Daniel and Amber without blackmailing her. And he force himself on her when he kiss her and that is not a person willing to give themselves to her.
Why is Deacon and Amber can have a kissing scene when Adam and Rafe didn't or Otalia didn't? I feel it is a double standard in soaps.
Josstheguy, Jamey and I aren' partaking in "guilting" ANYONE in something called OUR OPINION! I was asked by Siomonstuart what my take was, and I gave my answer. If you don't like my answer then it can be skipped over and you can keep it moving. The same goes for all that don't like my answer. It kills me (in a ha-ha way) when I'm asked for my take on things and when its given, I'm or someone else's "guilting" you on things. Then we must "think about what YOUR" saying in order to fall in line with a person's logic. At the end of the day its a SOAP.
I hope they don't kill lily off, I like her and Cane together and besides that. Why kill off another member of their family? Mom now daughter? Whats the point of that?
Lily won't die. Lily and Cane are extremely popular, plus Christel Khalil and Daniel Goddard probably don't make a lot of money in comparison to legacy characters. Killing Lily would anger many fans, especially Y&R's African-American female audience.
Yes, Dru died, but it was always assumed that Victoria Rowell would return since Dru's body was never recovered.
Even people who normally hate CK have said that she has been doing a spot-on performance with this story. I've talked to two cancer survivors, both self-proclaimed Lily-haters, who said that CK captured their feelings perfectly and gave her props for that.
Of course, they had the ability to be objective and mature about it. I'm just saying.
Comments
6 April 2008
3 years 19 weeks
When did this show become so plot driven? If this is the road the writers are going down, they need to pick up the pace because I'm starting to want Lily to just die already!!!!
11 December 2008
10 weeks 4 days
I'm still pretty outraged at the idea of completely gutting Lily and removing all of her reproductive organs. This definitely tells me what the current regime thinks of the future of the Winters family. For the life of me, I still cannot understand why every single character who has been SORAS'd on this show has been allowed to reproduce, but us fans of Lily will never have the opportunity to go through an onscreen pregnancy with her. This is so suspect. I see what's happening with the Winters - it's the same thing that happened to the Grants on GL. The Winters are being diminished, their future extinquished and it won't be too much longer before we don't see them at all anymore. After more than 2 and a half decades as a viewer, I'm finally ready to let this show go. Was I supposed to be merely satisfied with the fact that Lily had a story? Was I not supposed to understand the implications of a soap character than cannot reproduce any children?
15 May 2008
14 hours 26 min
Pure_Diva, see my spoilers. I think you'll be happy.
8 May 2008
6 weeks 1 day
Jillian, did you like Deacon blackmailing Amber to sleep with him so that Daniel can be off of charges? This is the repeat of the EJ and Sami consent/rape s/l on Days? Do you see a pattern here, LOL. JK, Jillian, I like to know what you feeling about this?
11 December 2008
10 weeks 4 days
Thanks for posting the spoilers.
Oh Goody. They saved a couple of Lily's eggs for somebody else to carry. I guess I should be... thankful for that little crumb?
15 May 2008
14 hours 26 min
Pure_Diva I never said you'd be dancing a waltz with that though. *LOL* I hear ya with the egg thing though... Lily can't catch a break.
15 May 2008
14 hours 26 min
siomonstuart I actually liked Deacon and Amber hitting the sheets. They were always hot on B&B. As for the pattern, sure I see it just like I see patterns of lovve triangles/heartache and blackmail on other shows.
11 December 2008
10 weeks 4 days
LOL w/Jillian. (I heart you!)
15 May 2008
14 hours 26 min
--->Pure_Diva
11 April 2009
14 hours 37 min
Jillian,
Isn't being blackmailed to sleep with someone rape?
This just seems incredibly sexist to me.
Yes, Deacon is sexy. So what. Being raped by a sexy or ugly man is still rape.
There's a real life case where some high school kid blackmailed his classmates to have sex with him. That kid is now behind bail awaiting trial.
When soaps reward characters like Deacon and E.J. by making them into desirable figures, it just sends the wrong message. Tea and Blair fight over Todd, a man who has psychologically and physically assaulted both of them in the past.
This just celebrates misogyny and continues the line of thinking that women should forgive their abusive partners. Which, sadly, leads to more abuse.
Deacon Sharpe was always a lover and a seducer. He never had to resort to threats to get a woman in his bead. I call character assassination by plot drive sexist writing.
8 May 2008
6 weeks 1 day
Yeah, I am not with that s/l because Sean Kanan does not need to blackmail any women to sleep with him. It is a bad plot and Hogan should of learn his lesson when he did that s/l on Days. Why not have Deacon come to GC with Little D and have Deacon flirt with Amber and have some problems with the Damber relationship and then have Deacon and Amber hit the sheets. That would of been more organic than the sexist s/l that the writers is going with.
22 January 2008
5 hours 28 min
People blackmailing people into sex is a soap opera staple.
15 May 2008
14 hours 26 min
josstheguy how is it sexist? Seriously how? Why watch if you feel that way? Its a classic archetype of soaps point blank. It was a joke and if you'd see how Pure_Diva laughed then you would know. Amber could've shot Deacon down and just finally spill all to free Daniel but she didn't. Deacon NEVER held her down and ripped her clothes off and rape Amber. So what would you call Sami drugging Austin? What about Dru being high on cold medicine and Brooke on pain pills with Ridge?
22 January 2008
5 hours 28 min
This is no different than Deacon seducing Bridget and offering to trade her for Amber on Bold and hte Beautiful, then setting up the phone for Eric to hear him deflowering his daughter. Or for that matter, it isn't much different than Amber drugging Cane and making him believe he married her. That's one of the nicer of her sins. She also slept with not one, but two underaged Forrester scions, which is technically statuatory rape and also stole a baby and passed it off as Rick's. It's a soap opera.
22 January 2008
5 hours 28 min
Arguments like this is why soaps are dying. Do you watch primetime Josstheguy? I just watched True Blood's protagonist having sex after killing someone with the corpse right next to him in a flashback scene. On Sex and the City, Samantha tried to seduce a Friar. Primetime has taken the serialzed format and exploded it and that's why it's thriving, because they don't have to deal with cries of righteous indigestion about things being sexist or not. Amber has done plenty of things to male victims to satisfy any quota of equality or women having the right to be victimizers on soaps just like men.
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8 May 2008
6 weeks 1 day
But Jamey, you said that when EJ did it to Sami, it was rape. Now it is different. It is not rape, but coercion and why is Deacon so obsess with Amber? This is a bad plot point and it is sexism. The problem with soaps is that most of the women on daytime is portray as victims and the men are the heroes when they shouldn't be. And the writing for daytime is horrible and prime writing has gotten so much better for the past decade.
8 May 2008
6 weeks 1 day
And, Jamey, you have to agree with me that the writing for Y&R has gotten too plot driven. Why is Amber degressing to fit a plot? She should of told someone about Deacon, but the writing for it happen. So they toke her brain cells and went along with it. Why is Ashley and MJ so crazy for babies and men? Sharon is weak and spineless and Phyllis is once again fallen for Nick's lie? Kay, Jill and Nina just went with Phillip's faked death and no one is angry or pissed off at him for abandoning them? Colleen is now manipulated by Victor and Gloria is taking stuff from Victor to get money? Lily has cancer and can't have a baby? Mac is all about Billy? there's a pattern of weak women on Y&R and the ratings is reflecting the disdain of the writing.
22 January 2008
5 hours 28 min
Simonstuart, I have never even tripped about Sami and EJ. They called it rape on the show, but it never bothered me. To me it was blackmail and not that big of a deal on a soap where Sami drugged Austin and made him believe he fathered his brother's child. Lucas allowed his mother to try to kill Sami, twice, that is much worse than EJ blackmailing her into rape. As for Amber, she has, as I said, done plenty of victimization of men. It's a storyline, and I don't find it sexist at all. Was it anti men when she drugged Cane? Was it rape when she slept with an underage Rick? If soaps were always morally and politically correct they wouldn't be much fun to watch.
12 April 2009
2 years 29 weeks
It's 2009. What worked in the good old days does not work anymore. Women expect to see images of strong & powerful women on screen. Flawed of course, but still strong. Grey's Anatomy, Desperate Housewives, Saving Grace, the Closer, Bones, the Mentalist, Southland, etc. all feature strong women characters who can take care of themselves. Women viewers are tired of this sexist crap and that's why ratings are taking a nosedive on every soap. Why would I relate to Amber or find her plight sympathetic? Why would I find a rapist attractive? SK may be handsome but Deacon is icky. There's nothing appealing about this story whatsoever. Amber is not 18. Why she so stupid? I won't even get started on senior citizen Ashley acting dumber than teeny bopper Abby.
11 April 2009
14 hours 37 min
Jillian/Jamey,
I just don't find rape stories that make a rapist, into a sexy bad boy/girl entertaining because I've known several victims of sexual violence: One friend was raped by her grandfather and brother. Another friend was attacked by his junior high school teacher. Someone I know at work was drugged and raped a party. A friend's sister was raped in parking lot going to her car after work. A college buddy was raped at age 13 when he went to summer camp.
Please don't try to guilt trip me for not liking crappy storylines like this it's really disgusting on your part.
Your points:
"People blackmailing people into sex is a soap opera staple."
So, what! I'm not saying that extorted sex doesn't happen in real life or in fiction. Should it be portrayed on TV, sure, just as murder, theft, and other acts of depravity are.
In real life, people get sent to prison for extorting sex: wisn.com/news/555-5555/detail.html
Yes, Sami was a rapist. Women rape men. What's your point?
Before MAB retconned Y&R, Chloe was shown climbing onto a passed out Cane. The implication was that she raped him. I thought she was scum.
Amber has done sleazy things. Does that mean that she deserves to be forced into sex?
What makes you think that I or others wouldn't denounce this kind of crap if it were on primetime or film? I think 24 is torture porn. Sex and the City was terrible. The Saw movies are sick.
As for primetime television, have you looked at NBC's primetime ratings? They suck. This summer, the CW's ratings have been FAR worse than GL's
I enjoy having discussions with you. But you're way off base here and really need to think about what you're saying.
11 April 2009
14 hours 37 min
Jamey,
It's not a question of soaps being "politically correct," it is a question of whether or not people who commit such acts are portrayed as villains or sexy bad boy/girls. Is the victim rejected by her/his friend because of rape?
In the real world, rape victims are accused of deserving or enjoying their assault. Bill O'Reilly infamously said that a 15-year-old survivor of rape and kidnapping must have enjoyed his years of assault. In Somalia, a 13-year-old female rape victim was stoned to death for adultery.
We see from the previews that Amber is denounced by Daniel, her lover, when she explains that she was blackmailed into sex.
22 January 2008
5 hours 28 min
Please don't try to guilt trip me for not liking crappy storylines like this it's really disgusting on your part.
***
See, Josstheguy, this is exactly why I barely respond to you. Who was trying to guilt trip you into doing anything? We were all giving our OPINIONS about a storyline. If our opinions don't jibe with yours, it is what it is. No one is trying to guilt you into anything, and if you find what I say disgusting then by all means don't read it. Don't tell me to "think about what I am saying" when I disagree with you. It's my right to have my own opinions about soaps or anything else. I have friends who were raped and/or molested in real life as well. This isn't real life. This is a soap opera where people lie, cheat, steal and kill and are redeemed all the time. One of this show's lead characters, Phyllis, killed her best friend and ran Paul Williams over. Victor Newman once held a man in a basement and fed him rats. I don't consider what Deacon is doing rape. I consider it blackmail. You disagree, again, it is what it is, but don't try to act all morally superior because we disagree about a storyline on a soap opera.
8 May 2008
6 weeks 1 day
I think that Y&R is so dark that I feel that no one on the show is good anymore. I love bad boys and girls, but if everyone on the show is doing something bad, then I feel that viewers will tune out because there is no one on the show to root for. It is too many on Y&R cartoon villains and not a complex bad guy or girl and that's why I have a problem with this s/l. And it seems that it does not make any sense for Deacon to blackmail amber for her Hello Kitty. He could of came into town and break up Daniel and Amber without blackmailing her. And he force himself on her when he kiss her and that is not a person willing to give themselves to her.
Why is Deacon and Amber can have a kissing scene when Adam and Rafe didn't or Otalia didn't? I feel it is a double standard in soaps.
15 May 2008
14 hours 26 min
Josstheguy, Jamey and I aren' partaking in "guilting" ANYONE in something called OUR OPINION! I was asked by Siomonstuart what my take was, and I gave my answer. If you don't like my answer then it can be skipped over and you can keep it moving. The same goes for all that don't like my answer. It kills me (in a ha-ha way) when I'm asked for my take on things and when its given, I'm or someone else's "guilting" you on things. Then we must "think about what YOUR" saying in order to fall in line with a person's logic. At the end of the day its a SOAP.
27 July 2009
3 years 42 weeks
I hope they don't kill lily off, I like her and Cane together and besides that. Why kill off another member of their family? Mom now daughter? Whats the point of that?
11 April 2009
14 hours 37 min
Y_N_Rlove,
Lily won't die. Lily and Cane are extremely popular, plus Christel Khalil and Daniel Goddard probably don't make a lot of money in comparison to legacy characters. Killing Lily would anger many fans, especially Y&R's African-American female audience.
Yes, Dru died, but it was always assumed that Victoria Rowell would return since Dru's body was never recovered.
But, that's just my two cents. Time will tell.
4 May 2008
1 year 41 weeks
"Lily won't die"....which is unfortunate, because she and her portrayer are both awful.
11 April 2009
14 hours 37 min
AlistairCrane,
You're as evil as your namesake!
Lily and Christel are wonderful. Have you been missing Christel's pitch perfect portrayal of Lily these past two weeks?
Christel has earned herself an Emmy nomination.
4 May 2008
1 year 41 weeks
Her performance is just like any of her other performances: needy, whiny, and bitchy. That's all CK is good at. Girl needs to be shown the door, stat!
11 December 2008
10 weeks 4 days
Even people who normally hate CK have said that she has been doing a spot-on performance with this story. I've talked to two cancer survivors, both self-proclaimed Lily-haters, who said that CK captured their feelings perfectly and gave her props for that.
Of course, they had the ability to be objective and mature about it. I'm just saying.